tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post2080519551510100343..comments2023-11-04T21:26:59.215+08:00Comments on Becoming Jane Fansite: Jane Bennet/Charles Bingley = Jane Austen/Tom Lefroy?Ichahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11201156394951497511noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-26576133322483091942007-11-06T00:22:00.000+08:002007-11-06T00:22:00.000+08:00Dear Icha, I’m soooo glad that you answered and ev...Dear Icha, I’m soooo glad that you answered and even more that you are interested in keeping this subject opened for more discussions. I am also in the office right now, but I promise to bring this evening more arguments that will positively sustain our little ‘discovery’ :-)<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your quick response… with hugs <BR/><BR/>MaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-23728104683449694152007-11-05T10:05:00.000+08:002007-11-05T10:05:00.000+08:00Dear Mary, you're amazing! Your observations are v...Dear Mary, you're amazing! Your observations are very interesting and I do agree with your deductions that it was possible that someone tried to prevent Tom from leaving. Perhaps not Mrs. Lefroy, but someone close to both Jane and Tom. For Jane liked to juggle genders and positions in her stories.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I'm sorry that my comment is very short. I'm leaving for field work in 5 minutes, but I've forwarded your comments to the rest of Team Jane so that they can participate. Keep watching this thread!<BR/><BR/>hugs,<BR/>IchaIchahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11201156394951497511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-3963700023786826952007-11-05T02:47:00.000+08:002007-11-05T02:47:00.000+08:00This is FANTASTIC! I’ve reached the same conclusio...This is FANTASTIC! I’ve reached the same conclusion few days ago and since then I searched on the internet in high agitation to see if anyone else gave it a though. I think you are the only one and I hope you did not abandoned this theory already… as your comments are posted more than 2 months ago. <BR/><BR/>I believe that this is the story from all Jane’s books that is matching so well the dates and events from her surviving letters to Cassandra.<BR/><BR/>In his book, Spence revealed that the name Bennet comes from Tom Lefroy’s favorite novel, Tom Jones. "Perhaps Jane noticed the name Bennet in the first place – it is only mentioned once in the novel – because of its connection with the Leigh family…Sir Bennet Hoskyns, whose wife was the daughter of Sir John Bingley."<BR/><BR/>As a natural conclusion, it is the love story of Jane Bennet and Mr. Bingley that we should give more attention and not the one between Eliza & Mr Darcy. Although, Spence himself has been tricked (as all of us so far), by the appearance of their story being connected to Jane-Tom. <BR/><BR/>Charles Bingley is the only one described with the same words used in the first letter to Cassandra: "He is a very gentlemanlike, good-looking, pleasant young man, I assure you."<BR/>Pride and Prejudice: “Mr Bingley was a good looking and gentlemanlike; he had a pleasant countenance, and easy, unaffected manners.”<BR/> <BR/>Jane was Bingley’s first choice and danced with her twice “she was the only creature in the room that he asked a second time”.<BR/>Letters to Cassandra: “Mr.H began with Elizabeth, and afterwards danced with her again; but they do not know how to be particular. I flatter myself, however, that they will profit by the three successive lessons which I have given them.” <BR/><BR/>The last ball, where Tom-Bingley danced with Jane before leaving the country, takes place at ‘his house': considering Ashe as ‘let’ by Tom during his visit. Also, the invitation has been received by Bennet-Austen from “himself”<BR/>Letters to Cassandra: "I can expose myself however, only once more, because he leaves the country soon after next Friday, on which day we are to have a dance at Ashe after all...After I had written the above, we received a visit from Mr. Tom Lefroy and his cousin George."<BR/>Pride and Prejudice: “The young ladies were summoned from shrubbery where this conversation passed, by the arrival of some of the very persons of whom they had been speaking; Mr Bingley and his sisters came to give their personal invitation for the long expected ball at Netherfield,” <BR/><BR/>I do not have any links with her letters, but reading again (how many times!) chapter 10, I’ve started to think there is a possibility that Tom has been asked (by Mrs Lefroy??) to delay his departure. <BR/>"When you told Mrs Bennet this morning that if you ever resolved on quitting Netherfield you should be gone in five minutes ... and if, as you were mounting your horse, a friend were to say, 'Bingley, you had better stay till next week”, you would probably do it, you would probably not go – and, at another word, might stay a month'<BR/>...Allowing the case, however, to stand according to your representation, you must remember, Miss Bennet, that the friend who is supposed to desire his return to the house, and the delay of his plan, has merely desired it, asked it without offering one argument in favor of its propriety.<BR/>To yield readily – easily – to the persuasion of a friend is no merit with you.<BR/>To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either.<BR/>You appear to me, Mr Darcy, to allow nothing for the influence of friendship and affection."<BR/> <BR/>I found the following extremely interesting but I do not now what to think. <BR/>Letters to Cassandra: "I look forward with great impatience to it, as I rather expect to receive an offer from my friend in the course of the evening."<BR/>Pride and Prejudice: “there was a gentleman ..., so much in love with her, that ...was sure he would make her an offer before we came away. But however he did not.”<BR/><BR/>Pray tell me, what’s your opinion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-29013479781882011522007-08-30T14:49:00.000+08:002007-08-30T14:49:00.000+08:00Michelle dear, to enliven my afternoon, here's my ...Michelle dear, to enliven my afternoon, here's my overdue comments on your lovely comments.<BR/><BR/><I>"But as to our having ever met, except at the three last balls, I cannot say much..."<BR/><BR/>This was written 9 January, a Saturday. There had been THREE balls at which TL/JA had met before this date.<BR/><BR/>For sanity's sake, the Fridays' before were 8th January, 1st January, 25th December, (18th December), etc. (I am using Friday as an example to represent each particular week. Christmas & NY would have thrown routine out of whack, I believe?)</I><BR/><BR/>Brilliant, Michelle! Four balls by 15 January, by the time the Manydown ball was held. Lovely, lovely!<BR/><BR/><I>Being the festive season, wouldn't there have been MORE parties/balls than usual? Could this reasoning help us in determine an indication of the length of time they spent together over this first Christmas holiday?</I><BR/><BR/>But of course, I agree. I bet TL had stayed in Ashe prior to 23 Dec, for 24 Dec was the Christmas night, and he would not want to be in a hurry, eh? At least, he would have stayed in Ashe since 20 Dec.<BR/><BR/>For Kari:<BR/>Welcome to our humble abode :-D of BJ Fansite! I will make the proper announcement once I have another post to upload (which is now still in writing...). Everyone, Kari is now pairing up with Michelle as our new Assoc. Researcher/Observer. Basically, feeding me more info if I'm too lazy to find out more myself :-D<BR/><BR/>Wonder what Rachel is doing now in Ireland... still sleeping after a day's journey in Dublin?Ichahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11201156394951497511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-46083628747260078952007-08-30T09:27:00.000+08:002007-08-30T09:27:00.000+08:00I am on the case Icha.Arnie - I'll look into those...I am on the case Icha.<BR/><BR/>Arnie - I'll look into those "bears" that I am chasing (I always seem to be in the ballpark but never at bat) and I eagerly await any news on your Wickham findings!!<BR/>: )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-80057353999383728622007-08-29T10:42:00.000+08:002007-08-29T10:42:00.000+08:00LOL! I believe, Arnie, you have to be quick. We la...LOL! I believe, Arnie, you have to be quick. We ladies in BJ Fansite turn out to be excellent Lady Detectives... you have to do the homework fast so you're not outdone! :-D<BR/><BR/>But, in the peaceful spirit of finding the truth behind Jane and Tom, I am very thrilled to see what Kari might come up on her own :-DIchahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11201156394951497511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-60793884634396138672007-08-29T10:31:00.000+08:002007-08-29T10:31:00.000+08:00Kari, When you wrote "I am curious as to how much ...Kari, <BR/><BR/>When you wrote "I am curious as to how much of Wickham is Tom or Jane?", you are barking up the right tree, but you are chasing, I believe, the wrong bears! ;)<BR/><BR/>Seriously, I will letcha know, but I am looking very very closely at the question of identifying the real person in Jane's world who she may have had in mind as she wrote the character of Wickham, and I will be sure to let you know when I am sure.Arnie Perlsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720424361279466002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-74890551583902202242007-08-29T04:19:00.000+08:002007-08-29T04:19:00.000+08:00Can't wait to hear what Rachel finds out in Irelan...Can't wait to hear what Rachel finds out in Ireland!Tinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00914676148076963332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-79380490128513359742007-08-28T21:31:00.000+08:002007-08-28T21:31:00.000+08:00Capital! Capital! How wonderful Icha & Michelle! T...Capital! Capital! <BR/>How wonderful Icha & Michelle! Thank you!<BR/><BR/>How obvious, as its right there. Excellent observations Ladies.<BR/><BR/>Now, you see, I cannot help dissecting where our Wickham comes into play. <BR/>I am curious as to how much of Wickham is Tom or Jane?<BR/><BR/>And, could there have been correspondence via letter between Tom & Jane during this point? <BR/>Secretly, that is.<BR/><BR/>: )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-50675789171110871352007-08-28T20:20:00.000+08:002007-08-28T20:20:00.000+08:00Michelle babe,He is a very gentlemanlike, good-loo...Michelle babe,<BR/><BR/><I>He is a very gentlemanlike, good-looking, pleasant young man, I assure you." - Jane Austen to Cassandra Austen, 9/10 January 1796.</I><BR/><BR/>You rock! I knew I've read the phrase somewhere, not in PP. Yes! JA's letters!<BR/><BR/>And more to your other comments. Me chasing the last bus here.<BR/><BR/>Hugs!Ichahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11201156394951497511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1129024732653900038.post-66165097997448913592007-08-28T20:13:00.000+08:002007-08-28T20:13:00.000+08:00Ahh, that last picture is perfection. Dear BBC ......Ahh, that last picture is perfection. Dear BBC ...<BR/><BR/>Wow Icha! I love the way your mind works! :-0<BR/><BR/><I>Bingley’s later reunion with Jane Bennet was orchestrated by Darcy, and thus made me think of Spence’s speculation that Mrs. Anne Lefroy actually orchestrated or supported the idea of Jane Austen visiting Benjamin Langlois in London (to gain his blessings for Jane’s relationship with Tom, though to no avail) was conceivable. Like Mr. Darcy, Mrs. Lefroy regretted her decision to send Tom away to London, and hence tried to make it up. Noble thoughts, despite the failure.</I><BR/><BR/>THIS is excellent! I also love your "August" Jane Bennett/Jane Austen speculation. You have developed a scant idea into a fully-fledged provocative post. Well done!<BR/><BR/><I>Charles Bingley was described as ‘good looking and gentlemanlike’ with ‘a pleasant countenance, and easy, unaffected manners’ (Hmm…he reminds me of Tom Lefroy).</I><BR/><BR/>Jane, on Tom Lefroy:<BR/><BR/>"He is a very <B>gentlemanlike</B>, <B>good-looking</B>, pleasant young man, I assure you." - Jane Austen to Cassandra Austen, 9/10 January 1796.<BR/><BR/>(Emphasis my own)<BR/><BR/>The more I think about it, the more I see a similarity between JB/CB and JA/TL. It's quite striking. (The dancing observations/gossip I love).<BR/><BR/><I>...Jane Austen met Tom Lefroy for the first time in Christmas holiday 1795. Well, it could be after 25 December, or even beforehand (for Christmas holiday certainly started before the Christmas itself).</I><BR/><BR/>I was wondering about this yesterday. In her letter of 9/10 January 1796, Jane writes:<BR/><BR/>"But as to our having ever met, except at the <B>three last balls</B>, I cannot say much..."<BR/><BR/>(Emphasis my own)<BR/><BR/>This was written 9 January, a Saturday. There had been THREE balls at which TL/JA had met before this date. <BR/><BR/>For sanity's sake, the Fridays' before were 8th January, 1st January, 25th December, (18th December), etc. (I am using Friday as an example to represent each particular week. Christmas & NY would have thrown routine out of whack, I believe?)<BR/><BR/>Being the festive season, wouldn't there have been MORE parties/balls than usual? Could this reasoning help us in determine an indication of the length of time they spent together over this first Christmas holiday?<BR/><BR/><BR/>PS: Thank you for the warm welcome. :)<BR/><BR/>Rachel, good luck in Ireland. Can't wait to hear all about it!!Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17149333094566635594noreply@blogger.com